REAL (8):Pontien questions about institutions, buildings and churches

Often, people say the Church when they want to say "a religious institution, an association of people who organize themselves and make their constitution and build a hall whereby they gather to pray, worship, teachings,..".  But as you said, the Church is not a building but is me, you or any believer or an assembly of believers...

My questions are the following: 

1. If we do not have those buildings (called churches by most Christians), how will it be to teach one another,  new believers,(1 Corinthians14:23-40) ... and What about Ephesians4:11(...he gave some, apostles; ..prophets, ...evangelists... pastors and teachers).

What again about Hebrews10:25: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is;  but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as u see the day approaching. Also, 1Timothy5:1-5( on verset5).

Other question is:

What is the difference between the Church(building) of the NY and the temple of the OT? And what is their difference between the two and the Synagogue?

My last question: 

As we see all these things( that you taught us in the conversation), what can  we do as Servants of God according to the Bible? How?

--------

Pontien u have great questions. 

I will try to answer them in order. I am sure Josimar can fill in anything I leave out. 

1.  We have limited ourselves because of our thinking as to where we can teach or minister to people about the Lord. As has been said we r having church right now even though we r not physically together. I know businessmen who have Bible studies at their place of business. Others meet over coffee or lunch. Those in China that have to meet secretly meet in a field. The place is not important, as long as we gather to encourage, teach and pray with others. Acts 2:42. Nothing is said about a building. 

Meeting in what is called a church building is not our objection!  It is thinking that the building is holy and is the church. Remember we r trying to change thinking. Once thinking is changed the rest will take care of itself. It is important that none of condemn others because they may not understand what we r sharing. We must always remain humble before the Lord. Where u meet is not important, but what u think and understand is vital to building the Kingdom of God. 

Many Christians will be saved and go to heaven but they will not walk in the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven. They r saved but they have little understanding of the King and His Kingdom. 

The 5 fold ministers do not need a church building to function.  When I went to Burundi the first time we met at the college. When we went to Madagascar this past summer we met at a hotel but much was accomplished around the dinner table in small groups. In these meetings we functioned in all the 5 fold gifts. 

U see Hebrews 10:25 fulfilled in the book of Acts as they met daily in homes and on the street, etc. the same is true today but sometimes with modern technology we meet on the phone or through email or the web. Thank God for technology!

2. The difference between the the NT church and OT temple. God allowed things in the OT that were not allowed in the NT. Acts 17:22-32. In the OT things were different because the Holy Spirit had not been sent because Jesus had not redeemed mankind. They need physical things that represented God because it was not the fullness of time for Christ to come. So Israel was a reflection of God to the world that did not know Him. Just like the Church, the people is a representative of God to the world today. 

Even in the OT God wanted to meet with the people (Ex. 19,20), but the people chose Moses to go to God for them. Today people have chosen ministers to go to God for them but it is not to be that way!  Man still is choosing physical buildings and people over personal and intimate relationship with God and man. 

So in reality because of religious teachings there is not a lot of difference between the OT temple and today's church. Jesus never desires this nor did he teach it. 

3.  What can we do today?  Have our minds renewed (Romans 12:1,2), think like God (no limitations), be sons of God and discover our identity, purpose and pursue this to the glory of God!  If we will all just be what He created us to be we will build His Kingdom and not our churches. His Church will be built upon the Rock Christ Jesus and the gates of hell will not prevail against it!

We will continue to discuss how we can do this as we move forward.  U r already doing it but u don't even know it because it doesn't fit in the mold of the religious system!  Keep believing for the impossible!

------

I will contribute with these two verses 

“So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.”

Colossians 2:16-17

“For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.”

Romans 15:4

We already trained to read the Bible with our preconceived ideas. When we read the word church for example we immediately think about t building or a group of people doing religious staff, praying or preaching. 

We need the have new thoughts that come from God instead on relying on our traditions to try to understand what the Bible says. 

Jesus is the Living Word and He wants relationship.

-----------

We are not Christians, we are followers of Jesus Christ

By Josimar Salum, based on an article by Ed René Kivitz 

We are just followers of Jesus Christ. We follow his footsteps. And if he died, also we died. And if he was resurrected by the power of God, we will also be resurrected at the last day. And now we no longer live for ourselves, but for our God who gave us life when we live for others.

We have no temple or altar, because we do not do animal sacrifices. We need not go to the temple or offer anything in any altar because Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.  

We do not offer more sacrifices on the altar, because our life is a sacrifice to God. We give ourselves over to our God as a living sacrifice, the true act of worship is to live for him. Everything we do, we do for the glory of our God. In fact it is not what we do or do not do it is the act of worship, but we ourselves, that is, our life itself, consequently, everything we do is an act of worship. We take care of people, those who are close; all that cross our path. This is worship.  

For the same reason also we do not have priests, because we do not need people to make sacrifices for us on an altar or in a temple, because our life is that it is the sacrifice, the altar is the Cross of Jesus and we are the temple. Alone, individually I am not the temple, we, collectively, are the temple. And we are priests, but none of us are a religious authority. We have no one greatest among us, only Jesus Christ. Only Jesus is greater! He is alive among us right here, right now! And we have no holy men in our religion. There are holy men around the world, but NOT holy men of religion. In fact, we do not have a religion.

We do not have a sacred day. Sunday is not the the Day of the Lord, every day is the Lord's.  Our ancestors had a holy day: the Sabbath. But that was in the time when we needed to go to the temple to take animals so that our priests sacrificed them. Now that we surrender to our God as a living sacrifice, the true act of worship is to live for him. And we live for Him living for our neighbors in any day, any time.

Let us be clear: we do not have a religion! We are followers of Jesus, we are not Christians because Christianity is not the religion of Jesus Christ. Christianity is the religion of Constantine, the Roman emperor. Because it was Constantine who began reassembling all that Jesus Christ had dismounted. It was he who began to build temples dedicated to God, officiated a day of the week for worship, invented to worship God is something that is done in temples, appointed priests, and started this mess that you see. 

Jesus taught that we do not need temples, altars, priests, sacrifices and holy days. Ah! He taught that He loved us as we love each other, serve each other, pray for each other, build each other, comfort each other, support each other and serve each other. We are not independent, neither we act independently, we depend on God and we are His body as we are individually members of one another. We are His sheep in His Church and we are His disciples in His Kingdom and thus never act independent of each other, we are never alone. Yes, Jesus taught that God is Spirit and they that worship him, must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Jesus Christ is God.