REAL (7): Jeremie questions about why we want to make members for our churchesand not disciples for the Kingdom

In the response of question 3 there is a statement that has touched me. 

The statement is this : " why we want to make members for our churches and not disciples for the Kingdom?" 

Some people say that we are making disciples of churches not disciples of Christ. In fact this is a big challenge for the young generation in the church today especially in some part of Africa where life is hard. People consider the church as their own business. Where people plant churches for the wrong motivations such as money orientation, churches planted out of conflict (i mean when an elder or a Pastor is in conflict with his senior he just goes out and plant his church to show his senior that he is able), fame... The place where when you talk about the church growth they understand numerical growth, because of the emphasis they put on the tithes and offerings,where a big number of Christians equal to a big number of money. Churches are like clubs always in conflicts and competitions, churches demonize and criticize other churches it is as if we are serving two masters. Someone estimate that 80% of church growth result from believers changing churches. The consequence of this is the lack of unity and cooperation in the body and the lack of strength for the Christian to challenge, influence and conquer the World. 

My questions are these. 

Is it possible that we can make an effective church leadership? How can you encourage the persons who think to be used by God to make a change?

GIVING SOME IDEAS ABOUT JEREMY'S (BURUNDI) THOUGHTS 

Jeremie, great question and I can give some ideas so we ALL can think about

1 - Jesus never commanded to plant churches. Jesus commanded to make disciples from all nations. The theology of planting churches is not in the Scriptures. Paul in Acts  went from city to city making disciples. We don't plant forests, we plant trees that become a forest. 

Nowadays usually to plant a church means to secure a place, somehow provide a structure to that place and then put a sign outside and it is called a church. Let us then convert people to the church. 

We are not suppose to convert people to the church anyway, but we are ambassadors that reconcile people with God. (I Corinthians 5)

It never occurs in our minds that the same church model we have in Burundi is the same model we have in America, England. We Brazilians who receive he gospel of salvation from American and English  missionaries also received their church structures with leadership and this goes to Luther from the Protestant Reformation who simply copied the Protestant structure from the Catholics. Catholic and Protestant leadership structures and leadership models are the same.   

And there is a leader called a pastor for every "church" as there is a Catholic priest to every parish and like you said well, among Protestant Christians and so called Evangelicals and Pentecostals  80% follows the pattern of a division in a "church" from any motive and then someone start another one to preach the same "Christ". Is it the Same Christ and the same Gospel how they are divided? (Galatians 1)

It is this you refereed to already and it is sad. Yes, it is a systemic business and not the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But understand that in the midst of this confused inherited system there are serious men and women of God that don't do better because they don't know how. Yet!

2 - Money is the driven force of this world and it is the driven force of churches all around the world. Even it is the main hindrance when we want to "send a missionary" to the field. So different from what Jesus said and planned. 

“These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.

And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.”

Matthew 10:5, 7-10

Why we have to think that "to move" the kingdom we do need money. Well, money should be the consequence not the cause! 

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This is excellent perception concerning what is going on around the world. It is not just an African problem. The competition between churches in the US is fierce. So much so that many people chose not to go to church. The testimony of the church is such that many people do not want to hear about God. It is very sad. 

The answer is what we r sharing. There must be a change in our thinking and understanding of the Kingdom of God. If we realize that we r all called to build His Kingdom through living a life that is dedicated to Jesus then the competition will seize. We will realize that we r all one in Him!  Leaders will desire to make disciples for the Kingdom and not there own little church. We will also realize the importance of every person in the Kingdom and not just as a tithe giver or what they can do for my church. We will begin to care for all people even if they never go to our church or even believe in God. God loves all people!  When the church begins to live this way the world will take notice. 

We will begin to change the world from every area of society!  Right now we r trying to change it from within the broken system of the church rather than being the church and pursuing our purpose and destiny for the Kingdom of God. 

Hope this helps. Yes we can train leaders in the body of Christ but they must have a change of mind and heart.

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These churches are not the Church of God. JESUS HAS JUST INE BRIDE. Baptist church is not the church of God. AG is not the church of God. Catholic church is not the Church of God. These churches were never meant to exist according to the NT. There is one flock and one Shepherd. We are the Church even though separated and divided by these littles churches. Like Paul said we have to love each other and in our hearts there must be no division whatsoever. We are not members of a church. We are individually members of the Body of Christ 

But not of a church. Individually we are members of one another. Please, seize the difference!

“For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness. Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion. Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”

Romans 12:4-14, 16-21

We are all leaders in the Body of Christ! According to Scriptures we are all Ministers (servants)! There is no clergy and lay people in the Church of God!! Training leaders means equipping the saints, all saints

“I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech YOU (every believer in Ephesus) to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, (EVERY BELIEVER HAS A CALLING) with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the EQUIPPING OF THE SAINTS for the work of ministry (MINISTRY IS ALL KIND OF SERVICES), for the edifying of the body of Christ, till WE ALL  come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 

that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 

but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the WHOLE BODY JOINED AND KNIT TOGETHER j by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.”

Ephesians 4:1-7, 11-16