Disciples and Sheep: Why is it so complicated to understand something so simple? By Josimar Salum

Disciples and Sheep: Why is it so complicated to understand something so simple? By Josimar Salum

How to follow Jesus and understand the Jesus who freed all men to worship God everywhere, anywhere?

What does it really mean to love? To worship is to serve God as we serve one another and others everywhere.

Worship is no longer going to Jerusalem or anywhere else to worship, because the hour has already come when true worshipers worship the Father in Spirit and Truth.

Worship God who serves, who serves men and sings, raises his hands and dances, never failing to serve one another and men.

Devotion is to pray hand in hand not only as we sing and speak together with God, but in the day to day life as we live.

You would never find Jesus directing a service in the Gospels! You find him initially going as usual to the synagogue of the Jews, but you will soon find that his journeys almost always ended in his expulsion.

You find Him, the God and Creator of the universe, Jesus, just in the courts of the temple.

Jesus could not enter into the holy place much less in the Holy of Holies. He was not a priest of the tribe of Levi. Remember that David, like Jesus, from the tribe of Judah dared to enter the holy place and ate the loaves and then what happened?

Well, it was hundreds of years ago that the Holy of Holies did not even visit that place anymore. The Ark of the covenant had already disappeared from that little place behind the veil hundreds of years ago.

For when Jesus was taken to the temple as a child and when he went to the temple, the Son of God did not set foot in that "most holy place."

Well, the people and the priests did not know God. Jesus the Holy of Hollies, the Ark of the Covenant could now be seen and even touched on the streets of the cities and on the roads of Israel by anyone, seen by Greeks and pagans and even touched by wounded lepers and bleeding women. 

The journeys of Jesus and His disciples to the temple and synagogues always ended in conflict. There was no more place for the Word of Truth in religious structures. Not today. Long ago there were times when the Word manifested itself, but since the age of Samuel it had become scarce.

Where do we find Jesus and His disciples doing what they love to do?

In the houses eating with his guests and friends while Jesus taught His Kingdom.

In the daily meals, eating together, yes, having supper together, for every supper among disciples is holy. This is what the Holy Spirit really means when He says "not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another - and all the more as you see the Day approaching." Hebrews 10:25

How dare religious people think that meeting together is about worship services?

Jesus and His disciples would also be found in the streets and squares of cities proclaiming the Gospel, doing good, healing the sick, casting out demons, freeing the captives, raising the dead, eating and drinking with publicans - public officers, politicians? - and sinners and announcing that every year now is acceptable to the Lord.

Jesus was never a religious leader, a cult leader, a church worker, or a pastor of any flock. Jesus is the Shepherd of one flock. And there are no others. Only one! One Shepherd and one Sheep! That simple!

Jesus never performed any worship in the empty temple of the Jews, nor in a public square, anywhere.

Jesus is a Teacher, He teaches, He makes disciples, He has no organization with members. The Church that Jesus built on Himself has no structures, because it is the Body. The Church is the structure.

The wine-skins of men, houses, temples, seminaries, buildings, and any others are just wine-skins. Maybe Kingdom Wreaths if they are useful for the Kingdom. As God always has new wine, men's wine-skins always break, break, shatter and lose wine, because they can not handle God's new wine. For God, all these structures have nothing to do with the Church. And invariably they become scandals and offenses in the Kingdom. Ultimately they will be uprooted from the Kingdom forever.

The Church is the Bride, the Body and the House of the Lord. And the Kingdom is the Lord! And His children as He, kings and priests, all of them. In the Kingdom all are kings and priests. All!

These wine-skins have never been able to restrain the Church, to mold the Church, to organize the Church, to surround the Church, to subject the Church to leadership as pious as it may be, to "commemorate" and bind disciples in a community in itself under men who while insisting in being the church, fragment, divide, and separate the disciples of Jesus from one another.

Yes, men shepherd the Church of God, the flock of God, not the churches. But they are shepherding like sheep, for they are not essentially shepherds, they are only sheep. Yes, men make disciples, but they are not "discipl-ers", they are essentially disciples. All of us, one by one, each one, are only sheep and disciples of Jesus.

Let us return to Jesus and His disciples who in the cities and fields as laborers worked the harvest to gather the sheep before Jesus and the nations made disciples only for Jesus.

And, "following the truth in love, let us in all things grow up in him who is the head, Christ, of whom the whole body, well adjusted and strengthened by the help of every p art, effects his own increase for the building up of himself in love." Ephesians 4: 15-16

REAL (35) ARE YOU A DISCIPLE OF JESUS OR IS CHRISTIANITY YOUR RELIGION?

ARE YOU A DISCIPLE OF JESUS OR IS CHRISTIANITY YOUR RELIGION? PART I

What have you understood about what Dr Paul and I shared about the kingdom and the Church?

If you continue be a Christian in the religious sense you will never be free to be who Jesus wants you to be!

Religion, any religion, including Christianity is the greatest enemy of transformation! For many people being a Christian is to do prayers, attend worship services, not drinking or smoking, doing, doing, doing something for God! 

Jesus was not Christian! Jesus did not start Christianity! Christianity is a men made religion!

Unless you are born again you can not SEE and ENTER the Kingdom of God!

Are you a disciple of Jesus or are you a Christian? 

Are you born again or were you only baptized?

Are you a church member or a disciple of Jesus?

I see many people around me in confusion! They stay in church all their lives but they are not transformed! 

There are as many gossipers, and slanderers, and liars in christian churches as outside of them.

Most of Christians I know are financially bound, in debt, even though they are so sincere they never prosper even being faithful in tithing and offering.

Many of them are never able to overcome poverty! Why? Their religious mindsets and world views keep them apart of God's wisdom for change and transformation.

Many of them bound by the Christianity world view never prosper! They were taught to expect that someone should give them something. Some are praying for answers like if God would be a magician that will do a miracle for them that they may not do anything. 

God urges us to fight, to work, to conquer and press on for our lives.

95% of Christians never had made a disciple for Jesus, they are only goers to the Christian temples! 

Where in the Bible says that for me to follow Jesus I have to become a Christian.

Many of them treat their women badly, many young people have a bad testimony and some are called Christians, but are haters and murderers.

Christianity is not life according to God's Word! There are a lot of things in Christianity that are against Christ, that are not in accordance of God's Scriptures.

God's Word is Jesus Christ alone! 

Do you want to follow HIM? 

Do you want to hear directly from HIM or will you always have to wait for a pastor or a intercessor or some kind of witch to talk to you what you have to do?

I want to encourage you to think differently! But to think according to Jesus! How does Jesus think?

Burundi, America and Brazil are called Christian nations! In Brazil, per example, that has a president, congressmen, senators or judges that are considered Christians but they are as crooked and wicked as any Devil worshippers! 

I don't care if you are a religious Christian! Nothing has changed in your life, nothing will change in your life, you will not be transformed if you don't become by nature a true follower of Christ!

Being called a Christian is just a name of another religion. All religions are sin! Because religion is a system that intents to substitute Jesus as the only Mediator between men and God!

I sincerely hope you will understand me NOW, because most of you DO NOT!

There are many pastors in your country that are men and women of God! But they are men and women of God not because they are Christians, but because  they have renounced everything to follow Jesus as Lord and King alone!

We are opened to answer your questions! Please feel free to ask anything related to what you just read.

JSalum

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JN - Yeah.you're right Dr.

But what i can add is that God doesn't love lazy people.We have to know that the disciples also worked.For instance Paul wove the tents.So,image if someone stay praying believing that someone will come and give him something.😀😀

We have to that there is no need to be called christian while we don't belong to Christ.Therefore in order to belong to Jesus we must be as He was.We shouldn't brag our religion🙉🙉.We have to brag that we are in Christ Jesus.

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What do I mean by religious?

Anything I preach and talk but O do no live is religion and hypocrisy! Jesus never said we should build temples while people around us are dying of hunger!  But for if religious temple or church being Christian or not feed the hungry they do it directly for Jesus.

Don't call me Christian Jeremie because I am not! I follow Jesus! He is my King and Lord! How many Christians do follow Jesus? None of them! 😳😳😳😀😀😀😀

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Christian = Thank you to share more about religion how it cannot change our life, I do agree with it. But I didn't know Christianity as a religion but rather I know it as a relationship between God and people(His children)

Why is it so ?

Because in Acts 11:26

We can see that the disciples were called the first time christians because they resembled Jesus-Christ.

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Please Would you clarify this ?

 1.Being not Christian or religious but follower of JC means "to quit our churches and no  longer go to any church ?

2. How would we follow Christ while we are not christians ?

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Christian, you are the only one that can be called Christian - it is your name! 😁😁🙄🙄😳😳😳😎😎😎😎😀😀😀😀😀😀

Just kidding! Are you ready to be challenged in your thinking! Remember you have to think for yourself and have to check in your Bible if it is really so! 

Let us set some people free! Hallelujah! 

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

ARE YOU A DISCIPLE OF JESUS OR IS CHRISTIANITY YOUR RELIGION? PART 2

Three questions:

A - I didn't know Christianity as a religion but rather I know it as a relationship between God and people(His children) Why is it so ?

Because in Acts 11:26 we can see that the disciples were called the first time christians,  because they resembled Jesus-Christ."

B - Being not Christian or religious but follower of Jesus Christ means "to quit our churches and no  longer go to any church?

C - How would we follow Christ while we are not christians?

Let us define the words so we can communicate well!

Today to be a Christian means to be like Christ or to be a follower of Christ. If you are called Christian means for some people you are following Jesus! Are you about that? What about millions who are called Christians but do not follow Jesus? If someone ask what is your  religion you will answer: I am Christian! To be a Christian basically means you are part of a religion called Christianity or Christianism.

That is not what the Bible call a Christian. The word Christian in the Bible means to suffer like Jesus has suffered and with this meaning it occurs only once:

“Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.” 1 Peter 4:16 KJV

Look at this verse in another Bible version:

“But if one of you suffers for being a Messianic, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God in this matter.”

1 Peter 4:16 WMBBE

Then the word Christian occurred the first time in the Bible here:

    “and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.”

Acts 11:26 NIV

Who have called them Christians? Was the Holy Spirit?  Were other disciples of Jesus?

It says the disciples, the disciples were called Christians. They were called Christians, but they really are? The disciples of Jesus!

If you keep reading the book of Acts the word Christian was only repeated on more time, however the writer instead of start to calling them Christians the keeps calling them disciples. Why? Because they were not Christians, they were disciples.

They were disciples everywhere and all together in Church! Not in the church, but in Church, when they met in any place, they were the Church. There were not members of an Institution, they have never met in temples because all the temples of Antioch were only pagan temples! 

Yes, that is obviously ok if we come together in a "church meaning a building", but that is not a church with the Bible meaning! We are the church, two, or three, or more wherever we are gathered in the name of Jesus! Please read again the teaching on the Kingdom and the Church!

Besides I Peter 4:26 and Acts 11:26 the other time of the three times the word "Christian" appears in the whole Bible is Acts  26:28 and in this context:

“Now as he thus made his defense, Festus said with a loud voice, “Paul, you are beside yourself! Much learning is driving you mad!”

Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.” And Paul said, “I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains.”” Acts 26:24, 28-29 NKJV

The king was obviously mocking about who he thought Paul was trying to persuade him to become. He used the word christian in a negative way like In Antioch was not God who called the disciples Christians neither here! Christian was much like a nickname in Acts, used my wicked people to mock the disciples of Jesus.

Paul instead said:  I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I AM! 

He practically said I would you become such as I AM! Not a Christian but who I AM! Who Paul said who he was? He has never called himself a Christian. Many times Paul said he was - not called, not named - but he was a prisoner of Christ.

You can called yourself whatever you want to be called, but I ask: who are you? 

I AM a son of God, I AM a disciple of Jesus, and I should be called a Christian according the the Holy Spirit only if - ONLY IF - I suffer like Jesus suffered!

You have to decide if you are going to repeat and follow what you have learned or if you want to CHANGE the way you think to be in accordance with what the Bible says, and more important than all, to conform with what Jesus says.

We all want to be like Jesus is, to think like He thinks, to talk like He talks, and do what He does. So you must consider all the foolishness of religion to be who Christ is. If is not a decision that can make you who Jesus is. It is empowerment to become who He is.

TO BE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IS EASY AND COMFORTABLE, BUT TO CHANGE, TO REPENT is not nice. 

If the churches in Burundi, Brasil, Aruba, Congo, US, India are going to be and to do what they have been and done we will continue to have of the same! If you compare the disciples of Jesus in the first century with today's of who they say are his disciples can you see that something is not matching to what Jesus always wanted?  Can you see the churches are basically the same everywhere! Few are the true Jesus disciples though all of them call themselves Christians.

If it is a relationship between God and His children the Bible does not call Christianity, but fellowship. If you are following Jesus the Holy Spirit does not call you Christian, he calls you a disciple! 

Please, don't ask me questions until you respond mine: 

ARE YOU A DISCIPLE OF JESUS OR IS CHRISTIANITY YOUR RELIGION?

Are you a disciple of Jesus or are you a Christian? 

Are you born again or were you only baptized?

Are you a disciple of Jesus or a church member? 

Are you in the Body of Christ or are you a church goer?

Do you want to follow HIM? Then if you do you have to renounce Christianity like the apostles of Jesus renounced Judaism!

JSalum

Cristian - And I Thank you to share more

🤔 to your questions:

I'm a disciple of Jesus and if Christianity is considered a religion I'm not part of it.

Then that means I am a disciple of Jesus, I am born again, I'm not just a church goer.

But many don't think Christianity in that way . And I like what you called 'Fellowship' that would define exactly what I about know  Christianity. Also I do believe that are not going to heaven because they called Christians unless they're born again.

That's my point of view.

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Let me interject here. Josimar is shaking things that God has revealed to him. Do not take offense!  He is not attacking you personally. It is very easy to take offense, which causes us to close our spirit. This causes us to be unable to receive from God. The Pharisees were this way. Be a good Berean and simply look into the Word of God with an open heart that will allow u to receive fresh revelation. You must receive this revelation yourself. If you don't understand, pray but be patient. 

Ask the Lord to give u eyes to see, ears to hear and a heart to understand what God has prepared for you. 1 Cor. 2:8

I would encourage u if u can to go on line and read Frank Viola's book, "Pagan Christianity". This book looks at the roots to much of what is done in our churches today. U will be amazed. 

Here is the link to read or download the book of Frank Viola and George Barna - Pagan Christianity 

http://www.theology.kiev.ua/images/afiles/0000412.pdf

Why do I share this?  We often think what we do in church is sacred, but most of it is all man made. 

This may at least open your spirit to hear what the spirit is saying now!

We r both speaking from experience, but I realize that for many, many years I believe what I was taught from men who believed what they were taught. I just regurgitated what was given to without thinking for myself. This is the greatest problem with religion. Denominations are built on a man or a few people's experience and then formed into a set of doctrines to be taught to others. People then become followers of that person and study their doctrine that is based on scripture. This causes us to make God into a finite Being rather than an infinite being that requires an on going relationship to continue to grow in knowledge of Him. Our walk with God is a journey, not a destination!

We treat salvation and doctrine as if we have arrived. No way!  God is infinite and we must continue to pursue Him to know Him more!  This is what our life with Him is all about and using our knowledge of God to fulfill our purpose in His Kingdom on earth!

Hope this helps you to better understand what the Lord is trying to reveal to us for such a time as this. 

All of this is accomplished as we become Jesus!  Becoming Jesus is not religious or necessarily anything to do with the church. It has to do with becoming who u were created to be and walking as One with Him. In Him we live (have life), move (as guided by what we hear and see the Father do and speak), and have our being (our existence, our purpose)!

How exciting is that?  Much better than the routine of religion. 

Be blessed! Believe for the impossible!

Dr. Taylor

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REAL (7): Jeremie questions about why we want to make members for our churchesand not disciples for the Kingdom

In the response of question 3 there is a statement that has touched me. 

The statement is this : " why we want to make members for our churches and not disciples for the Kingdom?" 

Some people say that we are making disciples of churches not disciples of Christ. In fact this is a big challenge for the young generation in the church today especially in some part of Africa where life is hard. People consider the church as their own business. Where people plant churches for the wrong motivations such as money orientation, churches planted out of conflict (i mean when an elder or a Pastor is in conflict with his senior he just goes out and plant his church to show his senior that he is able), fame... The place where when you talk about the church growth they understand numerical growth, because of the emphasis they put on the tithes and offerings,where a big number of Christians equal to a big number of money. Churches are like clubs always in conflicts and competitions, churches demonize and criticize other churches it is as if we are serving two masters. Someone estimate that 80% of church growth result from believers changing churches. The consequence of this is the lack of unity and cooperation in the body and the lack of strength for the Christian to challenge, influence and conquer the World. 

My questions are these. 

Is it possible that we can make an effective church leadership? How can you encourage the persons who think to be used by God to make a change?

GIVING SOME IDEAS ABOUT JEREMY'S (BURUNDI) THOUGHTS 

Jeremie, great question and I can give some ideas so we ALL can think about

1 - Jesus never commanded to plant churches. Jesus commanded to make disciples from all nations. The theology of planting churches is not in the Scriptures. Paul in Acts  went from city to city making disciples. We don't plant forests, we plant trees that become a forest. 

Nowadays usually to plant a church means to secure a place, somehow provide a structure to that place and then put a sign outside and it is called a church. Let us then convert people to the church. 

We are not suppose to convert people to the church anyway, but we are ambassadors that reconcile people with God. (I Corinthians 5)

It never occurs in our minds that the same church model we have in Burundi is the same model we have in America, England. We Brazilians who receive he gospel of salvation from American and English  missionaries also received their church structures with leadership and this goes to Luther from the Protestant Reformation who simply copied the Protestant structure from the Catholics. Catholic and Protestant leadership structures and leadership models are the same.   

And there is a leader called a pastor for every "church" as there is a Catholic priest to every parish and like you said well, among Protestant Christians and so called Evangelicals and Pentecostals  80% follows the pattern of a division in a "church" from any motive and then someone start another one to preach the same "Christ". Is it the Same Christ and the same Gospel how they are divided? (Galatians 1)

It is this you refereed to already and it is sad. Yes, it is a systemic business and not the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But understand that in the midst of this confused inherited system there are serious men and women of God that don't do better because they don't know how. Yet!

2 - Money is the driven force of this world and it is the driven force of churches all around the world. Even it is the main hindrance when we want to "send a missionary" to the field. So different from what Jesus said and planned. 

“These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.

And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.”

Matthew 10:5, 7-10

Why we have to think that "to move" the kingdom we do need money. Well, money should be the consequence not the cause! 

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This is excellent perception concerning what is going on around the world. It is not just an African problem. The competition between churches in the US is fierce. So much so that many people chose not to go to church. The testimony of the church is such that many people do not want to hear about God. It is very sad. 

The answer is what we r sharing. There must be a change in our thinking and understanding of the Kingdom of God. If we realize that we r all called to build His Kingdom through living a life that is dedicated to Jesus then the competition will seize. We will realize that we r all one in Him!  Leaders will desire to make disciples for the Kingdom and not there own little church. We will also realize the importance of every person in the Kingdom and not just as a tithe giver or what they can do for my church. We will begin to care for all people even if they never go to our church or even believe in God. God loves all people!  When the church begins to live this way the world will take notice. 

We will begin to change the world from every area of society!  Right now we r trying to change it from within the broken system of the church rather than being the church and pursuing our purpose and destiny for the Kingdom of God. 

Hope this helps. Yes we can train leaders in the body of Christ but they must have a change of mind and heart.

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These churches are not the Church of God. JESUS HAS JUST INE BRIDE. Baptist church is not the church of God. AG is not the church of God. Catholic church is not the Church of God. These churches were never meant to exist according to the NT. There is one flock and one Shepherd. We are the Church even though separated and divided by these littles churches. Like Paul said we have to love each other and in our hearts there must be no division whatsoever. We are not members of a church. We are individually members of the Body of Christ 

But not of a church. Individually we are members of one another. Please, seize the difference!

“For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness. Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion. Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”

Romans 12:4-14, 16-21

We are all leaders in the Body of Christ! According to Scriptures we are all Ministers (servants)! There is no clergy and lay people in the Church of God!! Training leaders means equipping the saints, all saints

“I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech YOU (every believer in Ephesus) to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, (EVERY BELIEVER HAS A CALLING) with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the EQUIPPING OF THE SAINTS for the work of ministry (MINISTRY IS ALL KIND OF SERVICES), for the edifying of the body of Christ, till WE ALL  come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 

that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 

but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the WHOLE BODY JOINED AND KNIT TOGETHER j by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.”

Ephesians 4:1-7, 11-16