REAL (34) - Trinity? Thinking out loud

The word Trinity does not appear in the holy scriptures! We are not going to discuss theological stuff here, but I must - I MUST - I MUST - tell that all the doctrines you have learned so far must be checked out by your own study of the Scriptures  and through YOUR PERSONAL AND INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD JESUS.

It is possible that more than 80% of what you believe in your Christian life you have never checked it out by YOURSELF according to JESUS, the WORD OF GOD.

We are accustomed to repeat what we have learned from our leaders without investigating by ourselves with the HOLY SPIRIT if they are true or not! 

Please think about it before just repeating or copying with somebody else have said whoever they are! 

I understand that we all like to publish things from somebody else! That is fine! We do that! 

But we want to encourage YOU to think for yourself, to be able to analyze and think through everything even what we - dr Paul Taylor, myself and anybody ELSE publish in REAL!

Read the complete discussion - click here

http://kingsandchampions.blogspot.com/2016/05/how-to-think-instead-of-just-talking.html

JSalum

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RN - Thanks for the topic! But I think that Trinity is not a matter of reason but faith alone. And we can't understand through any representation because our mind is too limited to describe and to explain God in Trinity. Therefore, it's better to have a deep relationship with God then we can understand little about Him.

==================

Son, we don't need to explain Trinity because the word is not in the Bible. 

I think you got it!!! 👏👏👏 What we need and it is much better is to have a relationship with God  even if we don't understand much about Him!!

I sometimes wonder how can I have lived with my wife for 33 years without knowing her fully! What makes my journey with her so amazing is that we are in Love!

Are you in Love with Jesus? 

Let me very clear! TRINITY IS A THEOLOGICAL MATTER discussed for centuries! 😁😁😁😎😎😎😍😍😍💑💑💑

JSALUM

REAL (33): How to think instead of just talking!

HOW TO THINK INSTEAD OF JUST TALKING 

We believe the Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit! Yes, we do!

We also believe that there is ONE TRUE GOD! 

The word we use for unity does not reveal who GOD REALLY IS! The great I AM! 

So we are not going to discuss these theological matters here!

Jeremie Nitirandekura REAL Burundi published a post:

<<<Alright. He´ll give us to sit to His right as He was given to sit to His Father´s right hand.>>>

Then I said:

TO THINK ABOUT: If there is just one Throne mentioned in the book of Revelation (Apocalypses) how can Jesus be seated at the right hand of the Father? 

I did not say to talk about it, to question about it, to respond, anything else! I just asked you TO THINK ABOUT! 

😀😀😀😀

Then Jean Marie REAL Burundi commented: "I took a time to see exactly what the bible says in Reveration22:1b and verse3b talk about the throne of God and of the lamb."

Good! That is OK! That is how we should do! Taking the time TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!

Then Jeremie Nitirandekura published:

"To him who overcomes I will grant him to sit with Me on My throne,as I also overcame and sat down with my My Father on His throne." Revelation 3:21

I then responded: Yes, there is just ONE THRONE!! 

Jeremie continued: 

Of course it shows that there's one throne in heaven. But the kingdom is one. IT doesn't mean that Jesus has his belonging throne apart from the Father's kingdom.

But the Father granted the same kingdom "Then the seventh angel sounded: and there were loud voices in heaven ,saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ,and He shall reign forever and ever" Revelation 11:15.

If the Bible says that Jesus was seated at right hand of the Father it means that the Kingdom is one. 

Therefore if the kingdom is one,the throne must be also one.

In other words if the thrones are two, the kingdom will be two.😀😀😀

WOULD IT BE THE CASE WHILE THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE UNITED?🙉🙉

I got very excited with his words:

YES YES YES 👏👏👏 Father and Son are ONE - not number one! - And Father, Son and US ARE ONE --- BUT ONE in ONENESS

Then here comes Jean Marie comment out of theology, not from Scriptures, but from a "pre-conceived dogma"! I am not saying it is right or wrong, just 

 "As Jeremie says,the throne symbolize a kingdom and the kingdom must have a king.it's then the only one God in the trinity who reigns and sits on the throne"

The throne does not symbolize, Jeremie did not say it was a symbol, etc  Please, I am not making these comments to diminish what Jean Marie wrote! No! We have agreed we can say anything we want here according to the objectives  of the group. What I am doing now is an exercise so we can all learn how to THINK instead of just publishing our opinions and beliefs!

I wrote: 

HOW CAN WE THINK OF OURSELVES always being apart? There are so many churches and Pastors and Tribes and divisions in so many places. We have to change our minds, the way we think! 

“For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:” Ephesians 2:14-16 KJV

The word Trinity does not appear in the holy scriptures! We are not going to discuss theological stuff here, but I must - I MUST - I MUST - tell that all the doctrines you have learned so far must be checked out by your own study of the Scriptures  and through YOUR PERSONAL AND INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD JESUS.

It is possible that more than 80% of what you believe in your Christian life you have never checked it out by YOURSELF according to JESUS, the WORD OF GOD.

We are accustomed to repeat what we have learned from our leaders without investigating by ourselves with the HOLY SPIRIT if they are true or not! 

Please think about it before just repeating or copying with somebody else have said whoever they are! 

I understand that we all like to publish things from somebody else! That is fine! We do that! 

But we want to encourage YOU to think for yourself, to be able to analyze and think through everything even what we - dr Paul Taylor, myself and anybody ELSE publish in REAL!

J SALUM

REAL (16): A YELLOW IPE TREE AND A SERIOUS CHALLENGE IN CHRISTIANITY

A YELLOW IPE TREE AND A SERIOUS CHALLENGE IN CHRISTIANITY

Dr. Josimar Salum

The serious challenge of following Jesus after 1800 years of Christian-ism is that instead of following the person of Jesus many of us follow doctrine, theology, orthodoxies, traditions and dogmas.

We are expected to think within a box of labels and be restrained inside of it: pre, mid, pos tribulation-ism, pre, pos millennial-ism; Arminia-ism, Calvin-ism,  Pentecostal-ism; Protestant-ism and so on. 

In the beginning of our journey here at REAL I told a story about my friend and longtime mentor professor Wilson Regis. I asked him 25 years ago. On that occasion we were walking through the bus station square in the big city of Belo Horizonte, Brazil.

-Professor, what is more difficult: to speak or to write? I sincerely asked him.

He paused few long minutes with his eyes fixed on me and answered: TO THINK.

In another occasion I was driving my car with him at the passenger seat through the beautiful mountains from Nova Lima city to Rio Acima city. It was September and the rain had fell for a couple days and all leaves of all trees were green and the pastures upon the hills were also extremely green.

And then I looked in the midst of a hill there was a marvelous yellow IPE tree. I almost yelled when I said: 

- Professor Regis, look at that IPE tree. "She" is so beautiful. Alleluia!

He replied:

- Look at that IPE tree, Josimar. You look at her, please. Can you see her? Can you perceive her? Do you notice that "she" stands alone in the midst of the hill? Did you notice that all trees around her are green? Can you see all grass of the hills are green? Only her is yellow!  Everybody is green. Only her is yellow. She is so different. While everyone is green she has the courage to be yellow." (Wilson Regis)

Interesting conversation we are having here. Thank you for all replies. And at the bottom line it turns to what my dear long time friend, Dr. Paul Taylor frequently says: 

- Religious mindsets are difficult to change. Unless God opens our eyes, it is a losing battle. Fear of being wrong keeps many of us from rethinking what we believe.

Thank you 

A BIG CORRECTION:

VICTOR GOMES IS A COURAGEOUS YOUNG MAN who is not afraid to share what he thinks and believe. He reminds me of my old days, 32 years ago, challenging my professors at the Bible college.

  

Victor, let me correct my self! 

WE CAN DISCUSS HERE EVERYTHING. What we should not do is to be offended by each other with the answers we read and the things we share.

When I wrote "NO DISCUSSIONS HERE" I was acting like many times  my parents, my pastors, my teachers and many people acted with me. When I was young they taught me that I could not challenge their thinking, traditions, anything.

There was an occasion a professor expelled me from the room because I challenged some of his teachings of his Old Testament Theology class. That was not nice! 

Another professor told me many times: - Do what I tell you to do, no questions to be asked! 

And I know why he used to tell me like that. He was provoking me to do exactly the contrary.

I remember an old story I like to tell: there was a train engineer of those old rand rail trains that in every stop had a rubber hammer in his hand and used to punch every iron wheel of the machine.

Every station in a sunny or in a raining day he would get out of the machine and punch hard every wheel of the train machine.

One day a young kid approached him and asked:

- What are you doing, sir?

He very irritated answered him:

- I am punching the wheels with this rubber hammer. Don't you see?

The kid asked:

- Why?

He stopped, thought and got lost in his thoughts. Then he answered:

- I don't know! Before I started in this job my superior taught me to do just like that. Until now it never occurred to me that I DO NOT KNOW why I am doing this. OH! MY GOD!

-------

One of these days I will share with you how I came to  know this fine young man called Victor Gomes. He is son of a man of God and man of character and integrity, pastor Moacir Andrade of Ipanema Minas Gerais, Brasil. I wondered  why his name is Victor! 👏👏👏

REAL (5): KEYS OF THE KINGDOM

KEYS OF THE KINGDOM 

Paul Taylor:

Our thinking must change and will change when we discover that the Church is not the Kingdom of God. It is in the Kingdom but the Kingdom of God encompasses everything that is created. In the beginning was the Word....All things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life.... John 1:1-4

The Kingdom of God is about Life!  Not just church life. We r His children. He is concerned about all aspects of our lives. Where our children go to school. Where we will go, even to play soccer with friends. He never leaves us!  

Josimar Salum:

1) Paul and Andre emphasized we are Kings and priests. What does it mean being kings and priests? What verses of the Scriptures can reveal these truths?  

2)Those who have been born again are kings and priests. If you are a pastor or an evangelist, per example, it doesn't mean you are more anointed than a carpenter, a Doctor, a businessman or a teacher. How you and I can bring the influence of the Kingdom into air daily lives? How can we rule financially, in our schools, in politics, etc?

3) The gifts and the work of the ministry are not just for church, but for anywhere there is a need. What about the gift of discernment helping us to close a business deal? The gift of knowledge to open doors for our orphanage kids? The gift of wisdom to help us get the resources we need to run a shop, a daycare?

4) Andre referred to that we need believers outside the church that will make things different within the church. What things? Church people tend to see the things in the world from a "local church perspective". Usually we want to make members for our churches and not disciples for the kingdom? Can we think differently? What are these concepts needed to be understood so we can be successful?  Why worldly people don't pray, don't fast, don't even believe in God and they are successful in their businesses? 

Camila spoke about the prophet making no distinction between ministry and outside of the ministry. Life is ministry. Anything can be a ministry. 

For God there are no more altars in churches. The last altar was the cross of Jesus. Religious people build altars, Jesus disciples build His kingdom.

Paul Taylor

We r doing our best to provoke u to think, ask questions, search the scriptures and to expand your understanding of why Jesus gave His life for the world.  

Once u begin to think with a renewed mind (Romans 12:2), you will better understand God's will for your life and His Kingdom. 

We MUST UNDERSTAND THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS BIGGER THAN ANY CHURCH, CHURCH SERVICE OR PERSON OTHER THAN JESUS!!! 

We collectively have the mind of Christ. That is the reason we need to be in church so Christ can express fully through us.

Ask the Holy Spirit to open your understanding so that u can begin to know your identity, purpose and pursue your destiny with passion!

Your life will never be the same. U will have discovered the freedom that Jesus came to give us!  U will be able to worship God with your life and not just singing on Sunday morning or evening. 

KINGS AND PRIESTS

Revelation 1:6 says “and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.” Revelation 1:6

Jesus Christ has made us kings. That is why He is referred to as "The King of kings."  What does a king do?  He rules or governs the people of his domain. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT WE WERE NEVER CREATED TO CONTROL OR DOMINATE OTHER PEOPLE.  

Our leadership is like that of Christ. We r to be Servant leaders that lead by example not by might, by force.

Jesus gave us authority, not power to lead or govern. 

Authority is the skill of getting people to willing do your will because of your personal influence. 

Power is the ability to force someone to do your will because of your position or might. 

Many believers confuse these two words. We have authority in this world and power against the devil or evil. DONT CONFUSE THE TWO OR U WILL HURT MANY PEOPLE AS U TRY TO LEAD THEM IN LIFE. We also called to be a righteous king and most of all a servant king!

A priest is one who intercedes for others. That is our spiritual responsibility. Again just like Jesus who intercedes for us and the people of the world. 

The problem is that believers try to be priests in places where they have been called to be kings. This is not to say that we can't pray for people on the job because we r always spiritual beings and God is always with us. But there is a time for all things and we must discern when to apply say compassion on the job and when to fire the person who was stealing money from u. 

Let me ask this question. In scripture who did more for Israel (OT) or the church in the NT, kings or priests?

Was David a priest? Daniel? Abraham?  Moses?  Solomon?  The answer of course is no.

David was a "politician". He was a king! Daniel, Moses, Solomon were also men of the state. They governed people. Abraham was a farmer, he owned thousands of cattle and was involved in the matters of nations around him.

We are a royal priesthood, but we should discern the differences of the roles of a priest from the roles of a king. 

The first people in the OT to be filled with the Spirit of God and wisdom were not priests, but artisans that built the tabernacle and the garments of the priests. Ex. 31:1-4; 28:3. Marketplace people!

In the NT the disciples were fishermen, a tax collector and other various occupations but none were priests. Even John the Baptist who could follow the priesthood like his father did rather serve God in the desert, far away from the temple.

Of all the miracles in the Book of Acts of the Holy Spirit, 39 total, none happened in a church or synagogue!

My point is that western civilization and originally Constantine made ministers and priests religious leaders (clergy) and all the others lay people or secular.  U will not find clergy and secular in NT scripture.  Jesus Christ has made us ALL KINGS AND PRIESTS. 

That does not mean there is no place for the 5 fold ministry among those who gather together. Some are called to be Apostles, prophets,evangelists, teachers, and pastors.  They have gifts to do that work, BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE THEM MORE ANOINTED THAN THE PERSON CALLED TO BE A CARPENTER OR BUSINESSMAN OR FARMER. We are now both kings and priests to our God.

Who anoints us?  A Bible College?  A pastor or church leader?  Only the Anointed One, Jesus Christ!  He has anointed everyone who He has chosen and dwells in!

The key is you must know who u are (your identity), and your purpose and that u are anointed, then u will go forth with authority, and confidence!  Now u can move mountains because of the anointing that flows through your life.